Friday, December 5, 2008

The Kmt-famed Pwnt ("Punt"): Exactly where was it located!


The name "Pwnt", known by many in the "West" as "Punt", has come to us by Kemetic accounts and legends of journeys to this exotic land, generally given an air of veneration, i.e. ancestral veneration, one perhaps predicated on the idea of distant ancestors coming from the south. One sees recurring themes of this air of respect in both wall reliefs depicting journeys to and descriptions invoked legends around this 'exotic' land. Without these accounts, all else about this land would have been lost to us, at least in so far as we now know it—as "Pwnt", as it only appears by that moniker in Kemetic records; no actual scripts of the "Puntites" have been uncovered in archaeological areas "of interest", that researchers suspect, again from Kemetic descriptions, to have hosted the community of "Pwnt" that we all have heard time and again about from Kemetians. Because of this, the precise whereabouts of "Pwnt" remains mysterious to some degree; if Kemetic descriptions have provided a hint that narrows down the most plausible general location, then the same cannot be said about either the precise location of the center of administration or the territorial extent of "Pwnt". This leaves the "Land of Punt" becoming a subject of speculation and debate. One recurring theme in debates, is the physiological appearance of 'Pwnt' occupants on wall reliefs. That aside, other groups are invoked in the "Land of Punt". The following is a well known snapshot of a disfigured wall relief painting that has seen much circulation on the web:



Snapshots like that above have been used to reach the conclusion that the "Puntites" had a single physiological appearance, wherein the facial characteristics resembled that conventionally applied to Kemetic figures or personalities; in a word, "Puntites" seemingly lacked intra-population diversity. Some discussants have used this as proof that "Puntites" must have lived on the Red Sea coast of Africa or the African Horn, as if to suggest that diversity does not occur in that region itself. Other images though, don't paint a picture quite so simplistic; they show occupants in and around "Punt" that present an air of diversity about the region. An example of this can be seen below:


(click for hi resolution)

The old Them "Negroes" or "Nubians" aspect of the aforementioned subject of speculation and debate...

The resolution of the repro above apparently isn't high enough, but closer examination [click on the image above] shows that the four beardless kneeling figures for instance, on the topmost upper far right hand side, have facial characteristics distinct from figures that follow them [as well as the four kneeling figures immediately below them], whom in turn at least differ in clothing styles and other gear. Some have explained off this "anomalous" situation by suggesting that they happen to be "Nubians". One proponent in this regard is Jack Phillip, whom in his reproduced wall relief renditions, as provided below, deduces that the said beardless kneeling figures on the upper right hand side of the image must be "Nubians"; Phillip's motivation and basis for this apparently comes respectively, from the curiosity inspired by the apparent diversity in the wall relief in question, and in a zeal to explain off the distinctive facial characteristics of said kneeling figures relative to the bearded counterparts, he sought to find the answer in the Mdu-Ntr accompanying the figures, which reads in hieroglyphic signs as follows; n - m - j - w . Hence, Phillip reads "Nmjw" as "Nubians"; it matters not, if these folks were occupants of Kush or in regions between Kemet's southern nome and Kush, which "Western" scholars have traditionally and indiscriminately called "Nubia" even though such a geographical or political entity never actually existed, or yet, they were a segment of populations inhabiting the so-called land of "Punt". It is convenient for Phillip to do so, because in traditional "Western" discourse "Nubian" is essentially tantamount "Forest Negro" archetype, that is to say—any occupants along the Nile Valley that are deemed to not facially meet the "caucasoid" archetype. Hence, "Nubian" in this context is more than just a Eurocentric-created geographical moniker. Now of course, there is also another glyph accompanying the figures immediately below the two figures [whom Phillip says are "Nubians"], but their faces appear to have disappeared in a disfigured area of the wall relief; this glyph is apparently distinct from the one just read as "Nmjw"; it is relatively hard to make the words out there, save to say that the glyphs for either "ir" or simply an ideogram for "see, observe, or watch", followed by "m", and then what appears to be the determinative for "lake" [at the least], are visible. Is this another name yet for "Nubians"? Well, no word on that yet.

Courtesy of Jack Phillip, Punt and Aksum,...


Looking at that close-up repro above, are another set of four kneeling figures; this time bearded, and are right below the figures whom Phillip deems to be "Nubians". Aside from their beards, these kneeling figures have a relatively more "generalized" [facial] appearance relative to the remainder of personalities in this snapshot repro of the larger wall relief. Accompanying the bearded kneeling figure at the bottom end, on the far right, are glyphs that read respectively, p - wn - n - t + determinative for land. Right above this hieroglyphic ensemble of "Pwnnt", which is generally read as simply "Pwnt", there are recurring glyphs of three birds followed by some hard-to-make-out signs [due to bad resolution of the images]. These could perhaps either be ideograms presenting an air of "subordination" of the kneeling figures, or else some yet-to-be sort out word; the [bird] glyphs themselves are usually associated with the letters "wr".

The first figure immediately following the kneeling beardless [Phillip's "Nubians"] figures on the top half of the image above, appears to have no goatee, and has a relatively more rounded and short [light toned] wig(?). On the bottom half of the same image, again the first personality immediately following the four kneeling figures, i.e. the bearded ones, sports a relatively short & round wig(?) that is distinct from both the kneeling figures preceding him from the right hand side, and the figures following him, who sport longer wigs (hair) with head bands; moreover, he is wearing a loincloth-garment that is stylistically distinct from those of the figures behind and in front of him, and has a goatee that is relatively shorter than those of said figures to his either side. His distinctive "short" goatee also sets him apart from the aforementioned standing figure immediately above him, who sports no goatee. It's also necessary to note the stylistic differences between the last three bearded standing figures on the bottom section/register of the image, from the left hand side; the one on the far left, holding the leash of a baboon [we will later examine the exotic animals], has a loincloth-garment (Schenti) that sports a two-pronged strap of cloth draped from the waist over the genital area that we generally see on "Puntite" figures in other images, but the two fellows immediately preceding him, sport the "one piece" strap of cloth draped from the waist over the genital area. Is this just a matter of garment variety in 'Pwnt', a matter of social-class distinctions, or a matter of ethnic distinction? This deserves to be examined.

Some interpret this one occasion as an "anomaly", in its supposed depiction of what some deem "Negroid" characters; however, it is not alone in displaying diversity in imagery associated with 'Pwnt'; take the image below, for instance:



Once again in the above, we come across figures not only displaying a variety of garments, but also apparent physiological diversity. The distinctive plants generally invoked in imagery of the exotic land of "Pwnt" recur here; in particular, the "palm-tree" looking plants and the stunted "tree-like" plants sporting "dome-looking" branch-leaf ensembles on top of their trunks [possibly myrrh trees], or alternatively, the latter type of plants could be compared in shape to a spade. Also, hard not to notice as a recurring theme, is the "dome-topped" architecture or dwelling of some sort, usually with small ladder placed against an opening carved into that dome-like top; this [recurring] architecture seems to be a distinctive feature of the "Land of Punt". We will see these themes again in other imagery associated with 'Pwnnt' or 'Pwnt'. When finally coming to terms with recurring themes of diversity, at least in so far as diversity actually exists in imagery associated with 'Pwnnt/Pwnt', what is the next predictable recourse of some ideologically-inflexible dogmatists in explaining the apparent diversity? Yes, you guessed it: the 'Pwnt' occupants who do not meet their "ideal" perception of who the "Puntites" ought to or should be, and these are occupants who are inclined to also be dismissed as "Negroids, Negroes or black Africans" in some quarters, are branded as "slaves"; of course, these are claims with no textual or primary Kemetic support to them—suggesting that one group of 'Pwnt' occupants here are slaves and the other are just 'freely-living' locals. It is the old answer to the "Negro" question; if their presence cannot be explained as merely that of the "foreigner" in the land under discussion, then they must surely be "slaves". In what can only elicit one's amusement, one forum discussant went as far as invoking 'slavery' in Ethiopia back in ca. 4th century, presumably as his idea of evidence for said claim, concerning wall relief renditions that are dated substantially well before the common era. Some of these ideologues, in a halfhearted attempt to partake in what to them essentially allows them self-expression in a 'politically correct' way, replace "Negroes" with "Nubians" when it comes to dealing with Nile Valley affairs. Adolf Erman presents an interesting case, wherein he acknowledges not only the idea of "Negroes of Punt", but also sees the latter as "natives of "Punt"; careful examination of this at first glance, tells one that this is predicated on the notion that there are presumably people of other ethnicity or "races" who are also natives of "Punt". Indeed, the context of this should be placed within Erman's perception of "Punt" as more of a generalized geographical descriptive that spans the tropical Red coast regions of Africa and coastal portions of southern Arabia [the geographical and political question will follow here soon], rather than a name of a specific centralized state or polity. Here is a copy of paper citing such references by Erman:

Click on the image for hi resolution.

In the same image [scenary of goods being carried in 'Pwnt'] above, reproduced [in black and white below] in Jack Phillip's work, we come across the following:


Noticeably absent in Phillip's repro, is the third piece in the colored version of the image above, on the right hand side, with a very dark-skinned worker holding the leash of a dog or else a "dog-like" animal in one hand, and carrying a shaft of some sort on his shoulder. Alternatively, the colored image above, does not display the "c" piece in Phillip's repro, but it is taken into account elsewhere 'separately'. Could this be indicative of one of the factors behind Phillip's [seemingly] overlooking the diversity in imagery associated with 'Pwnt', and instead, consider the people he sees as "Negroid" in appearance [though doesn't necessarily have to say it out loud] to be "Nubians"? If Phillip's repro doesn't exactly show the big picture of the actual diversity seen in the wall relief, then it may be relatively easy for him to assume [or yet, play it off] that the said renditions don't exist, and hence, overlook them. Under such a circumstance, any "Negroid" looking figures invoked in "Pwnt" imagery [as provided in the example above, with the kneeling figures] would be treated as an anomaly, and conveniently labeled as simply "Nubians". It also appears from the repro above, that Phillip sees the figure in the register "a", as a "woman"; the colored image makes it quite clear that there is nothing particularly feminine about the figure in question, who happens to be a participant in carrying heavy goods, including the myrrh trees. One is predisposed to taking it that Phillip's first impression as such, was likely influenced by the long skirt-like garment of the figure. Such garments as worn by men [which are wrapped around the waist in a fashion almost akin to how men wrap bathroom towels around the waist], are not uncommon in certain areas of the African, but Phillip might not have taken that into consideration.

This "Negroid, Negroes, or Black Africans" theme has been noted elsewhere, as if to say that other 'Pwnt' occupants were of a different "race" or anything but the aforementioned, even going as far as [in some cases, and as noted above] to suggest that these occupants were not really 'Pwnt' natives. To the extent that these sources acknowledge diversity in 'Pwnt' wall relief scenery, it is in this context. Some excerpts from around the net that come to mind in this regard, are as follows:

"The reliefs also showed the features of the Puntine people, who were black Africans, as well as another race much resembling Egyptians.The later group of inhabitants was depicted as red colored (as the traditional color of Egyptians in ancient art), wearing a small beard resembling those of Egyptian priests and the short Egyptian shirts. Donkeys were depicted as the method of transporting goods, and white dogs guarding the people’s houses. Birds, monkeys, leopards and hippopotamus are also seen, as well as giraffes which are typical African animals, to live in Punt. Nehsi is then shown in front of his tent with a banquet offered to his guests, and observing the gifts presented.

Source: Courtesy of touregypt.net

M. Edouard Naville found at Thebes many remains of the Punt sculptures. The Puntites appear with their aquiline features, their pointed beards, and their long hair; **negroes** also of black and brown varieties are represented adjoining the Puntites proper. There are wickerwork huts, and a figure of a large white dog with its ears hanging down. Long-billed birds also appear flying about in the trees. Their nests have been forsaken and robbed, and the men are represented as gathering incense from the trees. Altogether, much invaluable information has been gathered concerning the famous people who lived in the Land of Punt, and with whom for a long period the Egyptians held intercommunication. Other discoveries were made near the great temple of Karnak, and the buildings of Medinet-Habu were cleared of rubbish in order to show their true proportions.

Source: Revue Archeologique, xxix., p. 127

Source: HISTORY OF EGYPT From 330 B.C. to the Present Time By S. RAPPOPORT, Doctor of Philosophy, Basel; Member of the Ecole Langues Orientales, Paris; Russian, German, French Orientalist and Philologist

Even reactionary critiques of an African based "Punt", such as the following, have taken notice...

“the Deir el Bahri reliefs do show a number of African people and apparently African animals, such as at least one rhinoceros and a giraffe. For Bimson, and for many of his readers, this was decisive evidence in proving an African location for the territory. Decisive enough to make them ignore or forget all the other evidence that clearly located Punt/the Divine Land in Palestine/Phoenicia. But if Punt really was Phoenicia, why then such an African influence? Why the large amount of space devoted to seemingly African animals and people with clearly Negroid features? This is a question that cannot be ignored. Velikovsky himself suggested that the African elements were imports, and stressed that the Puntites themselves were not Negroes, but Semites or Hamites. This in fact is true. The Puntites look very much like the Egyptians, and curiously enough, sport long pointed beards of a type worn in Egypt only by the pharaoh. (It should be noted also in this regard that the earliest Egyptian monarchy, the Horus kings of the First Dynasty, claimed to have originated in Punt: and this incidentally provides yet another dramatic connection with Asia; for, as David Rohl has illustrated (Legend: The Genesis of Civilization: 1998), the god Osiris, form whom the Egyptian royalty claimed descent, was not only specifically linked to Byblos, but was himself in origin a Mesopotamian god named Asar. Rohl also shows, in the same place, how the peoples of Lebanon also traced their origin back to Mesopotamia).” - by Emmet Sweeney

Of course, all of these citations are working with biologically "bankrupt" premise of "races", whereby the "negro" represents a strictly narrow and "non-variant" typological archetype.

An interesting feature about 'Pwnt's' diversity, is that the Kemetians professed to have had access to what they called the "dancing dwarf" from the region. Indeed, one sees a recurring theme here, as exemplified by the "dancing pygmies" figurines carved out of *ivory*, found amongst the Kemetic item collection brought in from journeys to their south.


The geographical and political question aspect...

The speculations and debates around the precise location of 'Pwnt' and whether it was even a centralized state named as such, has generated several ideological camps over the years. For instance, the implication that 'Pwnt' may have been located somewhere in the African Horn has spurred interest amongst peoples of this region, but since this region also comprises of modern nation states which are not all necessarily on friendly terms at the state level, competing ideologues from these regions have developed, with each professing 'Pwnt' to actually be primarily their heritage over the other. In other words, there are Eritrean ideologues who claim that it was actually located in what is now Eritrea, and so, must be Eritrean heritage as opposed to Ethiopian. Likewise, Ethiopian and Somali ideologues respectively claim 'Pwnt' to be their heritage as opposed to the other. Another group of ideologues who fall outside of the aforementioned groups from the Horn of Africa, span reactionary ideologues of various nationality who have disdain for things "sub-Saharan African", who reject an African-based 'Pwnt', and instead, prefer to locate it on the other side of the Red Sea. In some occasions, these distinct ideological camps temporarily converge in their perspective, as exemplified by the need to "cleanse" Pwnt off what is deemed to be "Negroid" occupants; neither of these camps generally find comfort in any notion of "native Negroid Puntites", as examined above with examples. To this extent, members of said ideological camps prefer to present "Negroid" occupants as merely servants, slaves or foreigners [whom some conveniently call "Nubians", while others dismiss them as "southern Sudanese" elements], no matter how frivolous the case may be. When the question of the "Puntite dwarf" comes up, members of these ideological camps seek to explain them off as either "Negritos" or "imports from central Africa" respectively, and even as rare and funny as it may seem, some have gone as far as implicating "Khoisans" as these dwarfs, as if Khoisans can be mistaken for pygmies or dwarfs. In a letter to Harkhuf from Pepi II, we come across such "dancing dwarfs", who have apparently been brought in from Yam and Punt respectively ...

A letter to Harkhuf from King Pepi II (aged about 8)

Royal Seal, Year 2, third month of the first season, day 15. Royal decree (to) the Sole Companion, the Ritual Priest and Overseer of Caravans, Harkhuf.

I have noted the matter of this thy letter, which thou hast sent to the king, to the palace, in order that One might know that thou hast descended in safety from Yam with the army which was with thee. Thou hast said (in) this thy letter, that thou hast brought all great and beautiful gifts, which Hathor, mistress of Imaaw, hath given to the ka of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt Nefer-ka-re [ i.e., Pepi II], who liveth forever and ever. Thou hast said in this thy letter, that thou hast brought a dancing dwarf of the god from the land of spirits, like the dwarf which the Treasurer-of-the-god Bawer-djed brought from Punt in the time of King Isesi. Thou hast said to my majesty: "Never before has one like him been brought by any other who has visited Yam."

Come northward to the court immediately... thou shalt bring this dwarf with thee,.. living, prosperous and healthy from the land of spirits, for the dances of the god, to rejoice and gladden the heart of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Nefer-ka-re (Pepi II), who lives forever. When he goes down with thee into the boat, appoint excellent people, who shall be beside him on each side of the vessel; take care lest he fall into the water! When (he) sleeps at night appoint excellent people who shall sleep beside him in his tent; inspect ten times a night! My majesty desires to see this dwarf more than the gifts of Sinai and of Punt! If thou arrivest at court, this dwarf being with thee alive, prosperous and healthy, my majesty will do for thee a greater thing than that which was done for the Treasurer of the god, Bawer-djed, in the time of King Isesi, according to the heart's desire of my majesty to see this dwarf!

Commands have been sent to the Chief of the New Towns, the Companion, and Superior Prophet, to command that sustenance be taken from him in every store-city and every temple, without stinting therein.

Indeed, stories like these recall previous expedition endeavors to the region [Pwnt], and sure enough, various inscriptions or letters either by envoys and/or Pharaohs [responding to envoy-recounts of such expeditions] have been left to us—"the living"; apparently, these expeditions were, or at least seemed to be, a source of pride to the Kemetian authorities, not only given that the said expeditions were considered to be major sea-faring undertakings, which were often seen as risky [as we shall see below, in the 'inscriptional' example that Erman cites], but also largely preconceived as one of the few or rare occasions of peaceful projects in relatively distant exotic territories amongst the many which are otherwise generally accommodated by strategic military goals, to fend off Kemet's potential rivals, and as one which yielded substantial, and in certain ways, exceptional commercial gifts. The reproduced inscription below for instance, serves as an example of such retelling:

"Fig. 1. Stela of Khentykhetywer, recovered in the Wadi Gawasis, describing his return from Punt. The relevant portion of the text reads: '...after his return in safety from Punt, his expedition being with him, sound and healthy ., and his fleet resting at Sww...' (From A.M.A.H. Sayed, in Revue d' Égyptologie, XXIX [1977], 139, pl. VIII; translation of A. Nibbi, in [i]Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, LXII [1976], 50)"
Here's another perspective on the matter of the "dancing pygmies", as well as the issue of diversity mentioned earlier [notwithstanding questionable descriptions like "central African features"], from net...

"As more Egyptian expeditions were sent deeper into Nubia, other peoples began to appear in Egyptian art with more markedly central African features, hairstyles, and characteristics. That Egyptian explorers penetrated the Sudan to a great distance at this period is suggested by the contemporary carved ivory group, preserved in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo, which was used as a child's toy. It represents three pygmy men, which could be made to dance when a string was pulled. To the Egyptians, these people were the "horizon dwellers", who were seen only once in many generations. They were famed among the Egyptians for their dancing, and when any of these people were brought to Egypt, they were made to perform "the dances of the gods." They would no doubt have come from the extreme reaches of the Upper Nile tributaries and the northern Congo area. -
Courtesy of nubianet.org

At least one site sought to explain the reason behind the dancing dwarfs being sought after by the Kemetian royalty:

The strange way in which Bes is represented has lead some scholars to think that Bes was of Mesopotamian or of African origin. The epithets "Lord of Punt" and "Lord of Nubia" also seem to point in that direction. On the other hand, Bes is known to the Egyptians from the Old Kingdom on, or before. There are . Bes may owe the epithet "Lord of Punt" to his dwarf-like figure: Punt, a legendary African society, was populated, among others, by pygmies.

There were two kinds of dwarfs known in ancient Egypt, the African pygmies and the Egyptian dwarfs. The African pygmies had hereditary dwarfism. These pygmies originated in the equatorial forests of Central Africa. The Ancient Egyptians brought them to Egypt from their trade stations in Nubia. The first pygmy was brought from Punt in the time of King Asosi of the Fifth Dynasty. Another was brought by Herkhuf from the land of Iam in Upper Nubia for the child King Pepi the Second.

The role of the African pygmies was to perform a dance called "the dance for god" or to dance in the royal palace to rejoice the king's heart.

The Egyptian dwarfs had a deformity in their bodies. A big head, a normal trunk, and short arms and legs characterized these dwarfs. These dwarfs were frequently placed in charge of pet animals. The Egyptian dwarfs also engaged in jewelry making.

Since the beginning of the Middle Kingdom, they served as attendants to their masters. The most famous Egyptian dwarf was Seneb, who lived during the Fifth Dynasty. He was a high official with many social, religious, and honorary titles. He was married to a normal-sized woman... Courtesy of eternalegypt.org, Dwarfs in Ancient Egypt.

The question of what would have been the territorial extent of 'Pwnt', even if one were to assume that 'Pwnt' were a state right off the bat, never seems to cross the minds of the aforementioned ideologues, who are just eager to promote their respective viewpoints, regardless of the weight of evidence. Apparently, "dancing dwarfs" have been brought in by expeditions to territories to Egypt's south and beyond Kush, including 'Pwnt', as noted above. Certainly pygmies are rare in the African Horn today, but they do occur in central Africa, which is right next to the Sudanese border. On the other hand, we hear about items like Teff, found in 4th Dynasty pyramids of Senefru for example,...

Abyssinian milliet, Teff [Eragotrs Tef Trotter], is cultivated for it's grain only on the Ethiopian High Plataeu.

Many plants resembling it are known locally as Teff; some of them are in addition cereals which are collected [eg. E pilosa P.B.].

Apart from the recent times, this cereal has not penetrated elsewhere. The present writer has shown that the term teff was not of Semetic origin but rather of ancient Egyptian origin. While the ancient Egyptians do not appear to have been familiar with the cultivation of Abyssinian Teff, they made use of Eragrostis pilosa in exactly the same as is done today in the valley of the Nile and North-East Africa [Barth 1858 and Kotschy 1862] Unger [1866-67] found grains of it in the pyramids of Dashur Pyramid [3359 B.C.] Fourth Dynasty and in the blocks of clay from the ancient town of Rameses [1400-1300 B.C.] built at the begining of the New Empire. As a name, Teff [tief] appears to come from 'provisions' food.

Source: Papers in African Prehistory ed. J. D. Fage and R. A. Oliver. Cambridge, page 53, 1970.

Such items suggest origins in the African Horn, as noted. Other popular items obtained from 'Pwnt' such as myrrh, gold, spices and ebony, are found in the general region of southern Sudan, Eritrea, and northern Ethiopia. As noted, carved ivory sculptures do occur and could have arrived from central Africa, bordering Sudan. The areas [particularly southwest of] near Port Sudan were known for gold. In that same area, including the general region where the borders of Sudan, Eritrea and Ethiopia meet, the short-horned and the humpless long-horned cattle types—shown on wall relief imagery of 'Pwnt'—were also located, while the western region of Eritrea [e.g. Erkowit area] and the Tigris plateau area were known for incense and myrrh [courtesy references of Dr. Karl H. Leser]. Apparently exotic animals [*some* of which are now relatively rare in region] like giraffes, various feline [like say, panthers], dogs, bears, monkeys [notably including the baboon], donkeys, elephants, rhinos and a variety of birds [including "stalk-like" types] were available that far north, in that same general area. One particular animal of interest, i.e. the single-horned rhino, has been pointed to by the ideological camp of a "non-African Pwnt" to suggest that it serves as evidence of—well, a non-African based 'Pwnt'. However, it simply suggests, at the least, that a part of 'Pwnt' was not too far from the Red Sea; this still falls short of telling us the actual geographical extent of 'Pwnt'. Almost all other animals depicted are largely common tropical African exotic types; the same applies to the flora, as exemplified by the "palm-tree like" plants and the myrrh trees of 'Pwnt'. Word is that even the examination of the marine fauna depicted in 'Pwnt' imagery, though in some cases hard to relate them to highly-*specific* existing [subspecies] variants, all appear to be of tropical or subtropical water-body types; they have been related to general species types—see below:






Above, are examples of some of the fauna & flora mentioned, including the evident marine fauna. Click on this last image to see the "short-horned" humpless cattle type [also take note of the aforementioned dome-topped dwellings—shown on the 2nd top colored image of this page as well—on piles].

Below, is a colored photo of a wall relief at Luxor displaying wild animals from the "Land of Punt" being escorted by workers, who may or may not [or both situations apply] have come from 'Pwnt' along with the animals. Myrrh trees typical of 'Pwnt' imagery can be also seen in the image:


This tomb is in the valley of the nobles. It is a typical tomb of the 18th dynasty, with a vestbule and chapel. the paintings are very interesting with painting of different animals brought from the land of Punt. There are paintings of monkeys, bears, horses ,elephants and giraffe. There is also scenes of men working on a huge statue of a pharaoh. This is another tomb to include in your list - Courtesy of vtourist.com

Noticeable above, is the variety in the garment of the workers. Looking at the garment of workers in other 'Pwnt' scenery, we have...


Note the short white loincloth garment in proportion to the single strap of linen draped from the waist over the genital area. Certain group of workers uniformly sported these short with garments. Contrast this with the variety displayed above. Click on image to see an enlarged version taken from another angle.


Again, notice the style of the garment. Not different from the examples immediately above. Now, contrast the type with those worn by the bearded "Pwnt" workers.


Even amongst these bearded workers, there are variations in garment. There are garments with the two-pronged linen strip hanging from the waist over the genital area, wherein said strip is partially hidden under the kilt, and then there is the garment type with a single-pronged linen strip draped from the waist over the genital area, wherein again said strip is partially hidden from view underneath the kilt; figures wearing these aforementioned garment types are accompanied by other workers who are not necessarily bearded, and characterized by garments with a two-pronged linen strip draped from the waist over the genital area, which in this case is fully visible on the skirt. Click on the image for hi resolution.

Perhaps one aspect of 'Pwnt' occupants that should not be overlook before we come to a close in the "political and geographical" questions surrounding 'Pwnt', is the range of skin tones displayed, which generally parallel those in the lower Nile Valley regions all the way from Kush to Kemet. The dark reddish-brown tinge of skin tones displayed by the bearded 'Pwnt' workers, including the aforementioned chief and queen, parallel the conventions applied to Kemetic figures. This generally contrasts most Aamu ["Western" scholars generally know them as "Asiatics"] who are more often than not, depicted in Yellowish pigmentation as opposed to the dark reddish-brown.

Some interesting figures appear on the scenery, such as those of troops accompanied by the Egyptian expedition crew. Recalling one of the images already posted, we have [this is the photograph version]:

An envoy, allegedly by the name of "Nehesj", backed up with a troop. So goes the saying: Better safe than never!

The garments that the troops are shown wearing, is somewhat stylistically distinct from the conventional plain white loincloth garments usually associated with regular Egyptian personalities. Obviously as seen here, the body postures of the soldiers are suggestive of the group coming in peace. Elsewhere, this occasion has been interpreted as that of the soldiers coming along to "promote a one-sided trade", wherein Egyptian weaponry was presented as part of the trade items, with beads being the other, in exchange for the more elaborate variety of 'Pwnt'. Click on the image above, to see another version of troops, but this time, in marching body postures; the stance still seems to be that of a peaceful one.

Adolf Erman's interpretation—of the coming along of the soldiers in an 11th Dynasty expedition to 'Pwnt'—follows that of the protection of the expedition crew from potential enemies along the journey route, and he purportedly supports this by citing an inscription allegedly by chief treasurer Henu under Senekhkere-Mentuhotep III during the 11th Dynasty:


Click on the image for hi resolution.

Erman's description of 'Pwnt' was less than flattering, if not with an element of disdain; he presents 'Pwnt', which he does not regard as a name for a nation state but as a general descriptive for a region, as being exagguratingly admired and ascended to a legendary status primarily due to the products that it endowed Kemetians with, certain aspects of which were apparently relatively rare in Kemet, but that in reality, the people of 'Pwnt' were not all that much respected by Kemetians; rather, as he suggests, the locals of 'Pwnt' were seen as being less cultured than the Kemetians themselves; see below:


Click on the image for hi resolution.

Erman's disdain for Queen Ety is particularly noticeable. Her chubby appearance has been commented on; some discussants see this feature of the queen as yet another indicator of the African situation of 'Pwnt'. Certainly some members of the aforementioned ideological camps, i.e. those who argue for some African Horn country or the other, are inclined to argue that it is not uncommon to see male appeal for women "on the heavy side" in that region; though, it is questionable whether these are not appeals for "medically healthier" situations, or at least perceived as such by the eyes of the beholders, as opposed to appeal for females who are "heavy" because of medical adversity. Many observers see Queen Ety's weight issue as more of a mal medical condition. At any rate, even Erman tacitly interprets the situation as further indication of Pwnt's location in Africa. One thing that Erman mentions that shouldn't be overlooked, is the idea that donkeys were employed as the main "beasts of burden or for riding". Indeed, as another source put it, we have:

"In order to transport the material to build their ships, donkey were used, as camels were not available until after the invasion of the Persians much later:

To every man I gave his rations, a water-bottle, a staff, two jars of water, twenty loaves of bread. The donkeys carried the jars. When one of them tired, another was substituted. I excavated twelve holes in the wadi, two holes at Idahet, twenty cubits wide and thirty deep. One hole at Idahet ten cubits in every direction, at a place where water sprang.

Courtesy of touregypt.net

The keywords here being "camels were not available"; whereas in the Arabian peninsula, right across the Red Sea, one would expect camels as a beast of burden to have been around by then.

Images of Queen Ety, in the company of her husband Chief Perehu (Prhw); these have been displayed in repros already posted, but here is another variant:

Click on the image to see the color blown-up of the piece pasted in the repro above.

The chief Perehu (Parahu) is described as wearing a skull cap on his head, in a manner similar to some Egyptian deities, like Ptah in particular. Otherwise, like the bearded 'Pwnt' workers, he sports a goatee [which in Egyptian renditions is usually reserved for deities or divine personalities], and the loincloth garment sporting a partially-visible two-pronged linen strip over the genital area. The mentioning of chief Perehu and his queen could invoke a sense of a centralized polity in the Pwnt that Hatshepsut sent her treasurer. However, it is of note that Jack Phillip in one of his repros, mentions the "two" chiefs of 'Pwnt' [image below]; Erman, in the extract immediately prior to his last one above, also speaks of princes and chiefs in plural tense. Whether this implies that there were several other chiefs identified with 'Pwnt', or else that these were lesser chiefs of a hierarchically higher central one, is something that remains to be sorted out. Even so, while the idea of one supreme ruler of the land may serve as an indicator of a centralized polity, it doesn't tell us the geographical extent of 'Pwnt's' political borders at any given time.



As perhaps further indication of its geographical proximity translating into its localization on the African continent, we are told about another inscription that implicates 'Pwnt', but this time, not as an element of legendary admiration or as allies, but rather, as an adversarial element to the state of Kemet; we get this picture in an article by Dalya Alberge, in the article headed "Tomb reveals Ancient Egypt's humiliating secret"...

The tomb belonged to Sobeknakht, a Governor of El Kab, an important provincial capital during the latter part of the 17th Dynasty (about 1575-1550BC). The inscription describes a ferocious invasion of Egypt by armies from Kush and its allies from the south, including the land of Punt, on the southern coast of the Red Sea. It says that vast territories were affected and describes Sobeknakht's heroic role in organising a counter-attack.

The text takes the form of an address to the living by Sobeknakht: "
Listen you, who are alive upon earth . . . Kush came . . . aroused along his length, he having stirred up the tribes of Wawat . . . the land of Punt and the Medjaw. . ." It describes the decisive role played by the "might of the great one, Nekhbet", the vulture-goddess of El Kab, as "strong of heart against the Nubians, who were burnt through fire", while the "chief of the nomads fell through the blast of her flame".

The discovery explains why Egyptian treasures, including statues, stelae and an elegant alabaster vessel found in the royal tomb at Kerma, were buried in Kushite tombs: they were war trophies
.

The grammar of the inscription piece, as translated above, clearly presents the "land of Punt" amongst entities that represent an ethnic group and inhabitants of a designated locale that doesn't necessarily represent a nation state; namely, the Medjay and the tribes of Wawat respectively. Although from the looks of it, in that pieces of the text seem to be missing and thus, possibly warranting further examination, the cotexts of the "land of Punt" suggest that it is more likely placed within the context of the latter camp—that is to say, inhabitants of a designated broad or general locale that need not be a centralized state. Like the "tribes of Wawat", it is associated with a designated region or locale, while Medjay as cited, is invoked without a specified territory, which would implicate them as either nomadic types or as a geographically scattered group across territories of multiple polities. In other words, neither of the three named groups here appear to be players of a centralized state, but rather, are implicated as an ethnic group or inhabitants of a designated generalized region who have allied with Kushitic state; Kush is the only other entity that is unequivocally presented grammatically as a state player; that is, acting on behalf of a centralized polity. A curious feature about hieroglyphic invocations of the appellative "Pwnt" (Punt), is that they are generally accompanied by the determinative for "land", at least as demonstrated by the different occasions that have been implicated in this blog post, rather than the glyph of a 'circle enclosing a cross', i.e. "pwntcopyyu3.jpg"[often verbalized as "nwt", where verbalization is warranted] , usually synonymous with a polity or a nation.

At any rate, the extract serves as further indication that the "land of Punt" is within geographical proximity to Kush, such that they would conveniently forge political ties and create a unified military front to confront a common foe, which in this case, was the state of Kemet. If the Kushites had to cross the Red Sea, in order to get to the other side only to seek allies, then that undertaking would have involved more work and time consuming. In other words, the indicators point to the African localization of "Pwnt". In light of this adversarial relationship between Kush and Kemet at this particular point in time [since they are known to have more friendly relations in other occasions], from the web, at least one site gathered that,...

The historical frequency of commercial contacts and also the way how the Egyptians had reached Punt indicate - as stated by Fattovich - that it must be located on an area southeast from Nubia. A historical comparison of the contacts lets assume therefore:

- that in the Old Kingdom the goods from Punt had been brought to Egypt on an overland route, whereby this was controlled by the people from Kerma;

- that in the Middle Kingdom the sea route was preferred to travel to Punt, in order to evade the area of Kerma (however, this does not exclude additional contacts on an overland route);

- that in the 2. intermediate period the trade with Punt was controlled by nomads of the eastern desert who for their part had contact with the Kerma culture;


- that in the New Kingdom again ships were sent to Punt, until Nubia was fully controlled by Egypt; thereafter, the goods came also on an overland route, whereby the trade was controlled by nomads of the eastern desert; probably at the same time the trade with the west coast of the Arabian peninsula was started;


- that the contact during the 20. Dynasty was stopped due to climatic changes and resulting political weakness of Egypt;


- that thereafter until Ptolemaic times the trade with Punt and the southern areas of the Red Sea had been under control of people from Arabia, thus, Punt became a mythological idea.


All hints support a localization of Punt in the area at the border between Ethiopia and Sudan


Source: Courtesy of www.maat-ka-ra.de

The Mythical or Spiritual aspect...

'Pwnt' ascended to a legendary status at some point in time, and it is here one comes across mythical themes centered on the region. One good example of this can perhaps be seen in the tale of The Shipwrecked Sailor [ca. 2200 BC] , as found elsewhere on the net:

The wise servant said, "Let thy heart be satisfied, O my lord, for that we have come back to the country; after we have been long on board, and rowed much, the prow has at last touched land. All the people rejoice and embrace us one after another. Moreover, we have come back in good health, and not a man is lacking; although we have been to the ends of Wawat [Nubia], and gone through the land of Senmut [Kush], we have returned in peace, and our land---behold, we have come back to it. Hear me, my lord; I have no other refuge. Wash thee, and turn the water over thy fingers; then go and tell the tale to the majesty."

His lord replied, "Thy heart continues still its wandering words!
but although the mouth of a man may save him his words may also cover his face with confusion. Will you do then as your heart moves you? This that you will say, tell quietly."

The sailor then answered, "Now I shall tell that which has happened to me, to my very self. I was going to the mines of Pharaoh, and I went down on the sea in a ship of one hundred and fifty cubits long and forty cubits wide, with one hundred and fifty sailors of the best of Egypt who had seen heaven and earth, and whose hearts were stronger than lions. They had said that the wind would not be contrary, or that there would be none. But as we approached the land, the wind arose, and threw up waves eight cubits high. As for me, I seized a piece of wood; but those who were in the vessel perished, without one remaining. A wave threw me on an island, after that I had been three days alone, without a companion beside my own heart. I laid me in a thicket, and the shadow covered me. Then stretched I my limbs to try to find something for my mouth. I found there figs and grain, melons of all kinds, fishes, and birds. Nothing was lacking. And I satisfied myself; and left on the ground that which was over, of what my arms had been filled withal. I dug a pit, I lighted a fire, and I made a burnt offering unto the gods.

"Suddenly I heard a noise as of thunder, which I thought to be that of a wave of the sea. The trees shook, and the earth was moved. I uncovered my face, and I saw that a serpent drew near. He was thirty cubits long, and his beard greater than two cubits; his body was as overlaid with gold, and his color as that of true lazuli. He coiled himself before me. Then he opened his mouth, while that I lay on my face before him, and he said to me, 'What has brought you, what has brought you, little one, what has brought you? If you say not speedily what has brought you to this isle, I will make you know yourself; as a flame you shall vanish, if you tell me not something I have not heard, or which I knew not, before you.'

"Then he took me in his mouth and carried me to his resting-place, and laid me down without any hurt. I was whole and sound, and nothing was gone from me. Then he opened his mouth against me, while that I lay on my face before him, and he said, 'What has brought you, what has brought you, little one, what has brought you to this isle which is in the sea, and of which the shores are in the midst of the waves?'

"Then I replied to him, and holding my arms low before him, I said to him: 'I was embarked for the mines by the order of the majesty, in a ship, one hundred and fifty cubits was its length, and the width of it forty cubits. It had one hundred and fifty sailors of the best of Egypt, who had seen heaven and earth, and the hearts of whom were stronger than lions. They said that the wind would not be contrary, or that there would be none. Each of them exceeded his companion in the prudence of his heart and the strength of his arm, and I was not beneath any of them. A storm came upon us while we were on the sea. Hardly could we reach to the shore when the wind waxed yet greater, and the waves rose even eight cubits. As for me, I seized a piece of wood, while those who were in the boat perished without one being left with me for three days. Behold me now before you, for I was brought to this isle by a wave of the sea.'

"Then said he to me, 'Fear not, fear not, little one, and make not your face sad. If you have come to me, it is God who has let you live. For it is He who has brought you to this isle of the blest, where nothing is lacking, and which is filled with all good things. See now, you shall pass one month after another, until you shall be four months in this isle. Then a ship shall come from your land with sailors, and you shall leave with them and go to your country, and you shall die in your town.

Converse is pleasing, and he who tastes of it passes over his misery. I will therefore tell you of that which is in this isle
. I am here with my brethren and my children around me; we are seventy-five serpents, children, and kindred; without naming a young girl who was brought unto me by chance, and on whom the fire of heaven fell, and burned her to ashes. As for you, if you are strong, and if your heart waits patiently, you shall press your infants to your bosom and embrace your wife. You shall return to your house which is full of all good things, you shall see your land, where you shall dwell in the midst of your kindred.'

"Then I bowed in my obeisance, and I touched the ground before him. 'Behold now that which I have told you before. I shall tell of your presence unto Pharaoh, I shall make him to know of your greatness, and I will bring to you of the sacred oils and perfumes, and of incense of the temples with which all gods are honored. I shall tell, moreover, of that which I do now see (thanks to him), and there shall be rendered to you praises before the fullness of all the land. I shall slay asses for you in sacrifice, I shall pluck for you the birds, and I shall bring for you ships full of all kinds of the treasures of Egypt, as is comely to do unto a god, a friend of men in a far country, of which men know not.'

"Then he smiled at my speech, because of that which was in his heart, for he said to me: 'You are not rich in perfumes, for all that you have is but common incense. As for me, I am prince of the land of Punt, and I have perfumes. Only the oil which you say you would bring is not common in this isle. But, when you shall depart from this place, you shall never more see this isle; it shall be changed into waves.'

"And behold, when the ship drew near, according to all that he had told me before, I got up into an high tree, to strive to see those who were within it. Then I came and told to him this matter, but it was already known unto him before. Then he said to me: 'Farewell, farewell, go to your house, little one, see again your children, and let your name be good in your town; these are my wishes for you.'

"Then I bowed myself before him, and held my arms low before him, and he, he gave me gifts of precious perfumes, of cassia, of sweet woods, of kohl, of cypress, an abundance of incense, of ivory tusks, of baboons, of apes, and all kinds of precious things. I embarked all in the ship which was come, and bowing myself, I prayed God for him. Then he said to me: 'Behold you shall come to your country in two months, you shall press to your bosom your children, and you shall rest in your tomb.'

After this I went down to the shore unto the ship, and I called to the sailors who were there. Then on the shore I rendered adoration to the master of this isle and to those who dwelt therein.

When we shall come, in our return, to the house of Pharaoh, in the second month, according to all that the serpent has said, we shall approach unto the palace. And I shall go in before Pharaoh, I shall bring the gifts which I have brought from this isle into the country. Then he shall thank me before the fullness of the land. Grant then unto me a follower, and lead me to the courtiers of the king. Cast your eye upon me after that I have both seen and proved this. Hear my prayer, for it is good to listen to people. It was said unto me: 'Become a wise man, and you shall come to honor,' and behold I have become such."

This is finished from its beginning unto its end, even as it was found in a writing. It is written by the scribe of cunning fingers, Ameni-amenaa; may he live in life, wealth, and health!


Courtesy of this Link [click here], that provides additional references in an attempt to simply the language.

It is of note that the narrator of the story repeats the theme of having gone first through Wawat and Kush before landing in the land of Punt, which is not inconsistent with what we've seen with regards to the alliance forged between Wawat, Kush, and the Land of Punt in the excerpt above, as mentioned in the inscription found in the tomb of Sobeknakht, Governor of El-Kab, since they each relate the proximity of 'Pwnt' to these other two regional entities. Here too, we come across exotic animals already described above. All that aside, one noticeable mention here, is that of the Serpent prince of 'Pwnt'. Several discussants have pointed to this as another supposed evidence of its location in the African Horn, presumably predicated on the account that serpent worship traditions occurred in that region. However, servent reverance, deification or worship has been seen in a number of parts of the world, including ancient Egypt itself. The narrative around this Serpent prince of Pwnt has taken mythic proportions; for one, it is purported to be a gaint talking one. An interesting feature of the Serpent ruler, is that he was also "bearded" or sported the goatee type that recurringly appears in occupants of 'Pwnt' imagery. These resemble the false beards [or rather, goatees] generally associated with Kemetian Neteru figures, including as an item of symbolism on artistic renditions of pharoahs, who were deemed to be "divine" mortal rulers of the land. While it's possible that the people of 'Pwnt' were generally unshaven characters, the recurring theme, even on a mythified personality such as the sailor's Serpent ruler/prince of 'Pwnt', suggests that it is more likely that this is more a product of ascension of 'Pwnt' to semi-mythical porportions; returning to Adolf Erman, he provides an interesting prespective on what might have precipitated this level of admiration for 'Pwnt', wherein he implicates the relative abundance of goods, that the Kemetians deemed "precious", in the "Land of Punt" as partly responsible for this phenomenon, and indeed, the sailor does mention some of these purported "precious" goods or items, and talks about taking them with him to Kemet; recall for instance, from the story, the following:

Utterance by the Serpent prince of "Pwnt"...

"Then said he to me, 'Fear not, fear not, little one, and make not your face sad. If you have come to me, it is God who has let you live. For it is He who has brought you to this isle of the blest, where nothing is lacking, and which is filled with all good things. See now, you shall pass one month after another, until you shall be four months in this isle. Then a ship shall come from your land with sailors, and you shall leave with them and go to your country, and you shall die in your town.

And the sailor's interaction with the Serpent prince...

"Then I bowed myself before him, and held my arms low before him, and he, he gave me gifts of precious perfumes, of cassia, of sweet woods, of kohl, of cypress, an abundance of incense, of ivory tusks, of baboons, of apes, and all kinds of precious things. I embarked all in the ship which was come, and bowing myself, I prayed God for him. Then he said to me: 'Behold you shall come to your country in two months, you shall press to your bosom your children, and you shall rest in your tomb.'

Now, a look at how Adolf Erman builds the aforementioned case, as noted immediately above; in the process, it may be too tempting not to compare Erman's version of the translations with that provided above about the 'The Shipwrecked Sailor', to see if there are no translatory variations. Recalling an earlier posted Erman's piece, we have [with emphasis on the last sentence of the second paragraph and from thereon]:

Click on the image for hi resolution.

He goes onto reiterate this feeling of admiration for things "Pwnt" on pg 511 that is already posted above [the last Erman piece posted prior to this], and the corresponding semi-mythification of that region, but then turns around and speaks of how Kemetians did not see "Puntites" as their equals, in that the latter were perceived as the lesser cultured ones.

The following pages, 508 to 511, recount the same story about the shipwrecked sailor as that already provided above, but also taking into account why Erman says it has that mythical character just talked about...

Click on the image for hi resolution.

Click on the image for hi resolution.

Click on the image for hi resolution.

Click on the image for hi resolution.

Aside from the extraordinary claims about the "bearded" Serpent talking to the author, who was presumably a victim of a shipwreck, the tale also talks of this taking place on an isle or island. Is this simply the product of mistranslation? If not, then should that too not be taken literally? Certainly, the African Horn is the furthest thing from an island. A case could be made that the sailor had experienced moments of hallucination while being stranded alone near the shores of a land foreign to him, before a ship came to his rescue and helped him return to his country and/or else he decided to be a little "creative" about retelling circumstances of his sea-fairing journey, in an effort to not disappoint fellow-Kemetian audiences when recounting his experiences on this exotic land of 'Punt', knowing fully well that back in his homeland, that the average person had this 'semi-mythical' preconceived-notion of the "land of Punt". Against that backdrop, staying true to the series of events of one's experiences as they *actually* happened in an exotic land that was otherwise supposed to have this air of a semi "larger-than-life-as-usual" persona to it, would be seen as "life-as-usual", if not boring and unworthy of special attention; but such are the plausible options of motives behind the character of this storytelling, given the mythical aspects of the sailor's recounts.

As always, aspects of this post too will be continuously built on. Watch this space for updates.

9 comments:

astenb said...

WOW, this looks really really good. haven't had time to read it though. You should save this to PDF and circulate it.

varun said...

nice range!!Shawls and Scarves

Mystery Solver said...

astenb writes:

WOW, this looks really really good. haven't had time to read it though. You should save this to PDF and circulate it.

Sounds like a good idea.

G2 said...

Pwnt is laying ini SOUTH EAST ASIA. specificly in Indonesia today. Queen ATI and King Perahu. this 2 name until today indonesian people understand that word, ATI/hati it means heart or core or midle. perahu it means boat. and check the knive that king of Perahu wear. we call that kris.

Mystery Solver said...

G2 wrote:

Pwnt is laying ini SOUTH EAST ASIA. specificly in Indonesia today. Queen ATI and King Perahu. this 2 name until today indonesian people understand that word, ATI/hati it means heart or core or midle. perahu it means boat. and check the knive that king of Perahu wear. we call that kris.

While I find your theory interesting, noticeably different from other theories I've heard about Pwnt so far, it is an unlikely prospect that the ancient Egyptians (Kmtyw) would have gone that far for the specific items they brought back, and the distance suggested by the places named in the journey, not leaving out some of the animals named in the journey, which are rarely found as far as Indonesia.

Syed Aizril said...

I believe Punt was in Southeast Asian too... Perahu means boat and Ati @Hati means heart in Malay language.. Malay world also known for its richness of the gold.. the Golden Chersonese, Suvarnabhumi are examples of the title given to the land of this region.. Malay world also was once the world most renowned trading centre as it lay in between West and East.. Malays tend to build house with space between floor and the ground.. they also tend to wear or tie some kind of cloth around their head... they also known for camphor or kapur barus, the perfume resin and woods with fragrant.... I dont think its indonesia, i am more to say that the Punt is Puni@Boni@Borni@Borneo@Brunei.....aka Malay world... by the way indonesia is also part of malay world, bahasa indonesia is a modern national language originated from the Bahasa Melayu, so thats why they understand the Perahu and Ati... n i guess Punt at ancient times was the all part of Southeast Asia...

Syed Aizril said...

one more thing, Matahari in Malay language means the Sun... Matahari (mata=eye) and compare it with the Eye of Horus where it is also associated with the Sun... look at how the words of hari and horus that come after the word Mata@Eye are sounding similar and their relationship with the Sun... how come a Malay word can have relationship with the Egypt... that shows that in anciet time these 2 civilization met each other...

Mystery Solver said...

Falling back on information that comes to mind, it doesn't seem likely that the ancient Egyptians ventured that far east. That's not to say that they had not obtained goods from that far, via proxy [traders]. The journeys invoked in the ancient Egyptian stories analyzed herein do not elicit the time and distance it would take to go as far as southeast Asia, like Malaysia would exemplify. Anything specific, that comes to mind--which may have been overlooked in this blog entry, for example, which would unequivocally point to ancient Egyptian seafaring to as far as southeast Asia?

zilandi sahbudin said...

Ancient Egyptian or Phoenician had reached South East Asia thousands of years ago. There some evidences of these contact have been documented here.

http://rejang-lebong.blogspot.com/2008/04/egyptian-and-west-semitic-words-in.html